Hubert Greaves

Royton Tribunal 18 March 1916
Reported Oldham Chronicle 20 March 1916

The first batch of conscientious objectors to appeal before the Royton Recruiting Tribunal had an afternoon out of Saturday. There were six of them [William Albinson, David Powell, Arthur Marland, Haydn, Hubert and Stanley Greaves] but they brought a numerous and noisy following of young men and women who, to say the least of it, showed little respect to the members of the tribunal.

The supporters hailed from Oldham, Rochdale and Shaw and it was early evident that they would not remain quiet during the proceedings. Whilst waiting outside for their turn, the applicants were being coached and advised what to say and the public frequently passed remarks during the hearing of the cases in addition to applauding. All appealed for absolute exemption but in each case the application was disallowed and notice of appeal was given ….

…. Hubert Greaves (24 years) a piecer at the Trent Mill, Shaw, claimed exemption on the same grounds as Stanley. He could not take the military oath, as it was contrary to his conscience and to his teachings for the upliftment of democracy. He made a long statement to the tribunal, in which he pointed out that he absolutely refused to be made a part of the military machine, whatever the consequences might be.

The Chairman: Whatever this tribunal or the military people do, you will resist it?
- Yes.
Councillor Smethurst: You have no choice either for combatant or non-combatant service then?
- No, both are the same to me.
The Chairman: How long have you held these views?
- About 17 years.
That means you never fought at school, I take it.
- Well, perhaps not as far back as that. Fighting at school is not fighting with arms.
The Chairman: It is fighting with the weapons you have at the time. Don't take it too far back. You surely don't expect us to think you formed this opinion when you were seven years of age! You had better modify it for your own sake.
- Say ten years, then.

Mr Smethurst: You are evidently not particular to a year or two.
- I don't see what it matters how long I have held these views so long as I hold them now.
The Chairman: I expect sometimes conscience makes cowards of us all, I know it does me.
- I cannot see that I am a coward, I have worked for the uplifting of humanity ever since I held these opinions. I am a member of the I.L.P. and they are opposed to the war.
Councillor Smethurst: You are not a follower of Blatchford evidently.
- No, everyone has his own conscience.

The Chairman: Do you think it would be any use preaching these doctrines in Germany or Austria?
- They are preached there.
With what effect?
- Well, I don't know the real facts. I would preach these things where they are most needed. They are most needed here. (Cries of hear, hear)
The Military Representative: What uplifting have you done?
- Distributed literature to show how we can be uplifted.

The Chairman: Are they doing any Government work at the mill?
- I cannot say.
Have you taken the trouble to enquire?
- No.
It is a matter of indifference to you?
- I have to get my living. It is a question of capitalism.
The Military Representative: What would you do if you were on munitions?
- I would not make them. I would go on as I have done in a civil life and in a civil way.
The Military Representative: Have you darkened your windows at home?
- No, we have not, to tell the truth. (Laughter)

He admitted he wanted to keep Zeppelins away but the only way to do so was to declare peace. Peace taken to its logical conclusion would mean an ideal life. (Cries of hear, hear)
The Chairman: Unfortunately in this work-a-day life we do not attain our ideals.
The Military Representative: Would you do the Kaiser a good turn if you had the chance?
- No, I would do no-one a good turn except the democrat.
The Chairman: I am one of them.

Claim disallowed.

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Manchester Appeal Tribunal 17 April 1916
Reported Oldham Chronicle 21 April 1916

Six men from Royton …. who desired exemption from military service came before the Appeals Tribunal on Monday…. Sir William Cobbett presided.

…. Stanley, Haydn and Hubert Greaves, three brothers, asked for absolute exemption from service. Stanley said that he was an advocate for peace and he did not think peace could be brought about by the use of armed force.
Chairman: To what denomination do you belong?
- The No-Conscription Fellowship.
Chairman: We cannot call that a religion.

Hubert Greaves preferred to stand before the tribunal rather than sit and, in reply to the chairman, he said that he belonged to the No-Conscription Fellowship but his religion was that of a Socialist.
Chairman: I don't know if that is a religion.
Hubert asked why should men rush at one another's throats like dogs. Why should they quarrel and fight? It was all utterly ridiculous. He refused to do murder.
The military representative asked him if he had not told a canvasser that the reason he did not join the army was because the pay was insufficient?
- Yes.

Haydn said that his objection to service was similar to that put forward by his brothers. He would work for nothing but peace. That was his aim, never mind what the military authorities said. He emphasised his objection - it could scarcely be called an argument - by thumping the table. Peace would not be attained by force of arms but by peaceful methods.
Military representative: How long have you held these views? Are they not the views of two or three weeks?
- No, I have held them for years.
Did you tell the canvasser who came to your house that the pay was not sufficient?
- Yes, just to put him off.

This and the appeals of the other two brothers were dismissed.

Haydn Greaves: I want to know the reason why you have dismissed my conscience claim?
Chairman: Because we do not think you have a conscience claim.
Greaves: Shall I pull my conscience out and put it on the table before you will believe me?
Military representative: Yes, why not?

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The WO 363 records for Hubert Greaves survive (held at The National Archives, available online via Find My Past):

He was enlisted, at Ashton under Lyne on 10 May 1916, in the 3rd Manchester Regiment, regimental number 36019.
He was 5 ft 1¾ ins tall
He refused to sign his papers and was sent to his regiment in Cleethorpes where he was court martialled on May 18th 1916 and sentenced to 84 days with hard labour; 14 days were remitted.
He returned to duty on 27 July 1916 and refused to put his kit bag on his bed when ordered to do so. He was court martialled on 7 August 1916 and sentenced to 9 months with hard labour.
He accepted work under the Home Office scheme and was sent to Warwick Work Centre on 1 November. He was conditionally discharged from the army and went to work of national importance on a farm on the estate of Sir Walpole Greenwell.
In May 1919 the army had lost track of Hubert and enlisted the help of the Lancashire Constabulary. The reply from Superintendent B Jessop states that he was released from Dartmoor on 18 December 1918 and that he had been employed by Fred Sellars, Bone Hey Farm, Newhey, Milnrow for a few hours each week since January 1919. At present he was out of work on account of Mr Sellars being unable to find suitable work for him.

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He has an entry on the Pearce List.

Born Oldham, 8 May 1890
Died Harrow, December quarter 1959

1911 census :
25 Neville Street, Shaw
Single, age 19, with widowed mother and 3 brothers, Harold, Haydn and Stanley
Occ: Cotton piecer

1939 register :
66 Park View, Wembley, Middlesex
With wife Mary and possibly two children redacted.
Occ: Council employee, Cleansing Dept.

Contributed by Dorothy Bintley